The second chapter of the completely new film trilogy of the popular TV anime "Mononoke," which first aired on Fuji TV's late-night anime slot "Noitamina" in 2007, "Mononoke the Movie: Chapter 2: Fire Mononoke, " is now in theaters. Set in the Ooku, following on from Chapter 1, "Karakasa," the film focuses on the schemes and conflicts between families over the succession to the throne, and depicts the conflicts and suffering swirling in the hearts of the women who are at its mercy. Hiroshi Kamiya, who plays the main character, a medicine seller, Director Suzuki Kiyotaka, and General Director Nakamura Kenji talk about the message contained in Chapter 2, why medicine sellers have always been as necessary, and hints for Chapter 3. (This interview contains spoilers for the main story.)
◇Behind the scenes of the production of Chapter 2: Director Nakamura's mysterious confidence?
--Please tell us how you feel now that the second chapter, "Fire Rat," has been released.
Director Nakamura: It was a long time between the TV series and starting work on the first chapter, so I had a lot of worries. (As the first animated film) I thought, "The first one is going to be hard," but the second one was not easy at all (laughs). I had as many worries and difficulties as the first one, so I just feel glad that it's finished. I feel that the staff and cast all faced the work sincerely and gave their all, and as a result, everything came together in a seamless production.
--Did the realization that devoted fans continue to love "Mononoke" give you a lot of motivation in creating the second chapter?
Director Nakamura: That's a big part. I thought it was important to present something new and ask, "What do you think about this?", so I was a bit worried about that, but I don't really feel like I'm making a work for myself. The fact that "there are people waiting for me" was the core of my motivation.
-- Kamiya-san, you played the medicine seller again after Chapter 1. Do you feel any differently now than when Chapter 1 was released?
I feel like Kamiya-san's feelings haven't changed that much, but Chapter 1 is the start of the work, Chapter 2 is the process, and Chapter 3 is the conclusion, so I think there are naturally differences in those feelings. Also, like Director Nakamura, I don't make works for myself, so I'm happy that there are "audiences waiting for me." At the dubbing site, I face "how solid can I make the sound that the staff wants?", and the finished work is the result. I have come this far by trusting the "OK" I received from both directors and sound director Yukio Nagasaki. It's like a carp on a chopping board now, and I wonder how everyone will evaluate it, and I'd be happy if I could be praised, and I arrived at the opening day.
--After going through the first and second chapters, what do you feel is the appeal and fulfillment of working on the set of "Mononoke the Movie"?
Kamiya: On the set of "Mononoke the Movie," the director gives me all kinds of information in advance, and I can ask him anything I think is missing. Also, the director doesn't say, "Please land here," but rather, "I've set aside this many landing spots, so it's fine if you land within this range." For me, it's easier to approach it if he tells me to land on a specific spot, but I try to land within a broad range first. Then he gives me additional direction, saying, "Can you land a little more cool?", and I have to repeat how to approach that. I think it's a place where you have a strong sense of creating something together.
--Director Suzuki, who directed Chapter 2, what difficulties did you face during production?
Director Suzuki's first chapter was a raging film with an overwhelming amount of information, sound, and visuals. Production of the second chapter started a little later than the first chapter, and we put together the second chapter while receiving information that "this is what the first chapter will be like." Of course, we didn't make the second chapter after seeing the finished version of the first chapter, so as the differences between what Director Nakamura and I make became more apparent, I was worried that the customers who had seen the first chapter and praised it would feel that "this is not what they expected" when they saw the second chapter (bitter smile). I was careful not to stray from the core of "Mononoke," but I was worried about what would happen if I went too far.
Director Nakamura : Of course, I trusted Director Suzuki and left him in charge. I always said, "In Chapter 1 and Chapter 2, there are parts that are the same as the baseline, but there are also parts where the style changes drastically. It's okay to change."
Director Suzuki: That's the kind of exchange we had. For a feature film, the cuts in "Mononoke" are incredibly fast. In a normal feature film, one cut takes an average of four to eight seconds, but "Mononoke the Movie" cuts are nearly two seconds long. Because the cuts are so fast, I wondered if it was okay to move the extremely colorful pictures so quickly, but Director Nakamura's words of encouragement, "It's okay," helped me move forward.
It's that mysterious confidence that Kamiya-san and Director Nakamura have (laughs).
When I'm making a work directed by Nakamura , I'm often asked, "Is it okay to do that?" But there's no one in this world who can see the future. When I'm working on a work, I think about differentiating it from other content, "What will happen to animation in the future?", and even more broadly, "What should movies be like?" Then I end up asking myself, "Should I do it in two seconds?" (laughs). I calculate a lot of things and think about the logic behind it, such as when to pull back, but if I had to sum it up in one word, it would be "okay" (laughs).
--You mentioned that "no human being can know the future," and it's certainly true that this series has carved a world view onto the screen that is unique to the "Mononoke The Movie," something never seen before.
Director Nakamura: It's important to take on new challenges, but we're in the retail business, so we want to make things that our customers can enjoy. Just like a peach sold at a fruit and vegetable store, if they don't say it's "delicious," they won't buy it. I'm always thinking about the people who will receive it, but I think that even the customers themselves don't know what they want to eat or see. It's only when they're presented with something that they feel like, "I might like this!" That's a very difficult point, isn't it? Earlier, Kamiya-san said, "He doesn't decide the landing point," but that's because I also think, "I don't know." I'm sorry, but I'm looking forward to seeing what Kamiya-san will come up with, and I'm pushing it on him (laughs).
Kamiya-san hahaha!
Director Nakamura: A good word would be creative. A bad word would be forcing it on people (laughs). From Kamiya-san and Director Suzuki's perspective, it's something they would think would be troublesome. Even if they ask me a question, I often answer "I don't know," which means "I don't have the answer, so I'd like you to think about it."
◇ Thoughts behind Chapter 2: Why I chose to write a story about a mother and her child
--I can sense your trust in the team. Since the film has just been released, I'd like to ask you what kind of message you put into this film, even if it includes Mononoke called the Fire Rat, and the content that delves deep into the heart of "not being able to forgive yourself"?
Director Nakamura: I chose this story as a mother and child because, as a father, there are many moments when I think, "I can't compare to my mother." I think the attraction between mother and child is "amazing" because they share the same blood. However, at the same time, I didn't want to just summarize it as "mothers are amazing" or "the bond between mother and child is amazing." Having a child is a happy thing for a woman, but of course it makes her feel unwell and increases her anxiety about whether the child will be born healthy. This story is about how to survive when you are in a situation where you really need help, are pressured by those around you, or are in an unfamiliar situation. In the end, a person in a similar situation to the person who became a Mononoke reaches the choice that the person who became a Mononoke could not make. It was supposed to be a dark story, but I feel that it was something that left you feeling "relieved," and I think that such things are necessary in the world today. I put my wishes into it, such as "I hope people don't get crushed no matter how bad the environment is," "I hope people don't blame themselves too much," and "I hope everyone will forgive themselves a little more."
Director Suzuki's final draft went up to the sixth draft. The final draft was updated. I thought that what came out of the many discussions would be what I really wanted to express and what I really wanted to convey to the audience. There was an entrance that made you think, "What kind of story is this?", and while it included a heavy theme of, "So this is the story. It's a sad story," I wanted people to leave the theater feeling refreshed at the end. I feel that I was able to give shape to that feeling.
◇The one and only medicine seller with unwavering peace of mind
--Kamiya-san, what did you think about the content of Chapter 2?
As for Kamiya-san's story, to use a very cheap word, I thought it was a "good story." As both directors have just said, I realized that it was a story that was made up of various thoughts and discussions. On the first day of release, I went to the theater and watched the film. I don't often praise myself without reservation, but I was moved and impressed by the visuals, thinking, "It's amazing," and "It turned out like this." Also, the system of the "Mononoke the Movie" is of course different between Chapter 1 and Chapter 2, but the approach of the medicine seller is not different. The medicine seller infiltrates the Ooku with conviction and has the purpose of "slaying." As a medicine seller, I thought it would be fine if I didn't waver on that point.
Director Nakamura: The medicine seller shouldn't be influenced by those around her. She's a character in a position where she shouldn't waver, like, "I'll try harder than usual because this is the kind of emotion I have this time," or "I don't want to cut her because this time doesn't resonate with me." To be honest, no matter what the story is, the medicine seller is the medicine seller. No matter how much the people around her are moving, the medicine seller stands there, and when you turn around, she's still there as a medicine seller. There's a sense of security that "this person won't waver." I think it's difficult for Kamiya, who plays the role, to "remain an unchanging presence." I think there are parts of her that inevitably deepen her understanding of the role, so I think she must be thinking about various things, such as "Should I get closer to the medicine seller, or should we stay apart?" I felt that way while watching Kamiya's back as he was doing the dubbing.
Kamiya: In that sense, I can't be moved by the story when I'm dubbing. It's only when I watch it in the theater that I think it's a good line or a good story. I try to understand the story while dubbing, but I have to decide whether it's necessary for the medicine seller. I make such choices very carefully.
--The medicine seller really is a unique character.
Director Nakamura: He's a special character. He has very few lines.
Kamiya-san hahaha!
Director Suzuki was trying to add something.
For example, when the medicine seller says "I'm here," his facial expression doesn't change, but the animators were able to feel the medicine seller's emotions and express them. Each staff member was able to portray his emotions. I was impressed as I watched.
◇What will happen in Chapter 3?
--As the third chapter is getting closer to its release, please tell us, to the extent that you can tell us now, what you think will be helpful to read in the second chapter, what kind of work you would like to create as the final chapter of the three-chapter project, and your enthusiasm for the third chapter.
From the perspective of Director Nakamura's medicine seller, I think this will be a story about the work in Ooku being over for now. The medicine seller is not going to disappear. Continuing from the first chapter, we have been facing the theme of "fallacy of composition," which is that "the correct answer for an individual and the correct answer for a group do not necessarily coincide." Living with that discrepancy is bound to cause suffering. When you enter society, you start to feel "why?" and get angry more and more, and I think there are many people who live in a situation where their feelings and the system of society just don't match and they can't find a landing point. There should be a system for the happiness of each individual, but before you know it, you are suffering from the rules that you have to follow. In the first and second chapters, I have depicted the stories of people who have been tormented in this way, so in the third chapter, I would like to do something about "what should I do from now on?" The first chapter was from the perspective of a newcomer, and the second chapter was from the perspective of a mid-career person, so the perspective has risen, so the next chapter should be from the highest perspective. In the first chapter, Utayama says, "The scenery changes when viewed from a high place," and those words are reflected in the third chapter.
--I'm really looking forward to seeing what kind of scenery will emerge when we look at the Ooku from various perspectives.
Director Nakamura: I think it's dangerous to depict things from only one perspective. And ultimately, I want the people who see it to make their own judgment. They say that wine is complete the moment it comes into contact with air, and in the same way, I feel that the work is like wine and the audience is like air, and each person's impressions and the finished product will be different.
--The audience's reactions are all different, but it's very interesting that at the center of it all is the same medicine seller.
Director Nakamura: That's right. Because the medicine seller remains the same, everyone feels at ease even when the camera goes to various places. "In the end, this person who is the strongest will do something about it." The medicine seller, who never changes, is a truly necessary presence, now and in the past. In other words, Kamiya-san is a necessary presence!
Kamiya: I think it's okay if the director Nakamura is satisfied with the ending (laughs). No matter how long it takes, I'm very happy as an actor to be able to voice a film that the production team is satisfied with, and I think it would be the best if I could do that. I also understand that this is a work that was made in anticipation of the third chapter, and the medicine seller must be acting knowing that there are still troubles waiting for him ahead. That's why I thought, "I shouldn't exert 100% of my strength" when exorcising the fire rat at the climax of the second chapter. I tried to refrain from putting in too much effort and giving it my all here. I tried to do a subtractive performance. When I saw the finished work, I felt that I hadn't done that, and I felt a sense of accomplishment with an eye on the next step, so I was relieved.
Director Suzuki: I was just going to help out a little, but I was also pretty involved in the third chapter. That being said, "Mononoke the Movie" is hard work, but it's a lot of fun to work on. I'm really happy to be able to participate in so many films. There was a TV anime series, and I think that the audience who saw the film 17 years later were surprised at how vivid the colors were, how fast the cuts were, and how much information there was in the film. And yet, the first and second chapters have different flavors, and the third chapter is also a story that jumps to a different place. I think that the story will be enjoyable for those who watch it while making a leap and converging on the theme of "fallacy of composition." Each chapter has three "flavor changes" that are well done, so I'm enjoying participating in it.
--Is there any information or secrets you can tell us about Chapter 3 that haven't been made public anywhere?
Director Nakamura's secret that he hasn't told anyone (laughs)! Well... he's also supervising the design of movie tickets and upcoming merchandise, so there may be a hint in there. I'm not saying this because I want to make money (laughs)! If you pay attention to the merchandise, you'll probably find something that makes you wonder, "What is this?" Please look through it carefully and turn on your SNS notifications.
--Are there any points in Chapter 2 that you think people should pay attention to in order to enjoy Chapter 3 even more?
In the second chapter of Director Suzuki's story , there are some characters who make you feel like "Is there no meaning to this?", but there is a reason for them. I hope you will look forward to it.
Kamiya-san, that's true. There are a few people who are just there. Even when they come to the recording session, they just say "Thank you for your hard work!" and go home right away.
Director Nakamura , haha! But we have had many meetings about how it will be in Chapter 3. What I can say now is that if you watch the series again after watching Chapter 3, you will discover many things. Even if you watch Chapter 1 after watching Chapter 2, your perception of the characters will probably have changed. Some people may have thought that this event happened because that person disappeared in Chapter 1. Since the scenes are connected on a cut-by-cut basis, I think it will be interesting to watch the series in succession while thinking about various things like that. Each person actually lives in that space and leads their own life. When we work on such things while valuing them, the movements of the characters can sometimes become uncontrollable. In Chapter 2, Sakashita shouts, "Go! Medicine Seller!", and at first I thought, "Isn't that too much?" But Director Suzuki said, "I think Sakashita will say it." I'm really glad that it became a passionate scene. Director Suzuki also understood that I love Kume-chan, so he drew her cutely.
Kamiya-san, the last character Kume-chan has a very expressive face. Sakashita and Kume-chan are the ones who are in charge of the softer parts of the story.
Speaking of the characters, Director Nakamura , the scriptwriter Shinhachikaku created various characters when he started working on Chapter 2. Some characters were not in Chapter 1 at first, but were transferred to Chapter 1 while writing Chapter 2. I met these characters through hardship, so it's sad to think that I'll have to say goodbye to them after one more film. We're still in the production stage, so I'm having fun with the characters, saying things like, "You're still so energetic," and "Are you going to appear here?" I can't wait to go on an adventure with the audience.
--Kamiya-san, do you also feel like you've jumped into a fun adventure?
Kamiya-san is also very fun, and I'm having a really fulfilling time. Director Nakamura is like this, so just talking to him is fun. Even when we're talking about trivial things, there are many things that make me think, "I see," or "I see." Because it's a work created by someone with this kind of thinking, I myself can enjoy and think, "I think this flavor will be better." It's a moment that makes me feel like "no time is wasted."
